Marvin Harris has made us understand the importance of the environment in the origin and development of cultures. The rise and fall of empires, the rise and fall of religions have been a direct consequence of the relationship of human beings with their ecosystems. “Hunger makes culture evolve,” says this anthropologist. And with this premise, which he calls historical determinism, he has been able to explain why the Chinese abhor milk, the Jews do not eat pork, the Aztecs sacrificed people, the peoples of the Middle East eat yogurt or the Indians worship cows. Marvin Harris could be the storyteller grandpa, with his enormous body of knowledge. His manners are extremely cordial and allow the interviewer to feel like a grandchild in the lap of wisdom.
-What are you currently working on?
-My latest research refers to classification in anthropology. In the United States, two categories are used to identify people: white or colored. It is a very poor vocabulary compared to that of Brazil, for example, where no less than 60 or 70 forms of identification are used: brown, dark brown, light brown, etc. I am also writing a book whose working title is Ethnomenia. In it I will discuss the cause of hostilities between racial or ethnic groups. I think the issue is of great importance to the whole world at this time, when there is a lot of conflict and misunderstanding due to the interpretation of ethnic, cultural and biological identity.
–Does it have something to do with the rise of racism and xenophobia?
-It is necessary to establish the difference between cultural and genetic facts, which means separating the concept of race from that of culture. For Western civilization – there is only one African culture that applies to the entire continent, even though it is made up of endless cultures. If we consider Asian peoples, there are all levels of cultural development: it can be found from people who live by hunting and do not have bosses, to highly technical and hierarchical cultures. Until recently there were many types of state: empires, theocracies and political and social structures of all kinds, even within the same cultural group. We forget that the plastic nature of the human being allows the crossing of races and exchanges between completely different societies. We are capable of adapting to traditions and different ways of speaking anywhere in the world. A Chinese who was transferred to the United States as a child will speak English without any difficulty. All the languages of the world can be learned by anyone.
–In other words, there is no culturally closed race. Are all races and all languages related?
-The issue is to separate race, language and culture. They are different phenomena and, therefore, they do not continue together if we change them and separate them from their place of origin. And more so now, that money moves from one country to another at full speed through the media.
–Is global capitalism attractive to anthropologists?
-To understand this phenomenon we must understand that it is nothing more than a consequence of capital movements. It is surprising what is happening with large companies, not only multinationals, but also transnationals. These companies no longer belong to a single State, but to many. When a place is inconvenient for a company, because it is organizing and creating unions that threaten the power of the transnational, it is installed in another place.
–This has happened recently in Spain with Suzuki or Gillette. The large financial groups move their capital above the control of the State …
-I can make a forecast. I believe that there will be an intensification of conflicts between private companies and States and, as the power of the State fails, that of the transnationals will grow. However, there is also an optimistic fact: I see the European Community as a model for the future. It is good to create superstructures that do not need to confront the power of transnationals.
–From the point of view of anthropology, how do you approach the fact that I may be watching on television what happens to a citizen in a town in the United States?
– I believe that the process of creation of the global village is going to be accelerated, but, at the same time, the local customs will not be lost. Anthropology has a great future, because within global culture there is great variety. Paradoxically, society is not increasingly homogeneous, but more heterogeneous. I think of the new professions that coexist with those of the past. The social sciences have many amazing things to study: rituals, music. How many types of rock music are there today? Society is not more homogeneous, of course.
–The traditional family also experiences its own mutation …
-Sure, and there are many new familiar forms.
–But can the cultures of ancient peoples be maintained?
-New combinations of customs are going to be created. For example, in the United States more and more people call themselves Indian. The phenomenon is caused by the advantages of being an Indian in America today. Why? By the casinos. The states have laws against casinos, but the Indians have reserves that are not subject to those laws, so they do nothing but open new casinos there and win millions and millions of dollars. Many people want to participate in these benefits, so they simply become Indians.
–I imagine that it will not only be a question of money. There will also be an interest in their culture …
-Yes, and that is why new rites and new traditions are also being invented. Old ones are lost, but new ones are invented. It is a contradictory phenomenon, because the old ones were also invented.
–Can it be considered to be part of that religious movement that they call the new era?
-The growth of religious phenomena is not localized, but occurs throughout the world. It is a reaction stimulated by the rapid changes in the economy and in families. People have lost their way and are looking for values that certify that human life is not a simple commodity. Times of social transformation have always been accompanied by religious changes. At the same time that technological development is created, a new cultural entity emerges. Perhaps a religion is being forged that replaces, synthesizing them, all traditional religions: Hinduism, Christianity, shamanism … Religions are always adapting to the new times, and now a global religion appears because economic factors are also global. The urban dweller, who experiences family disintegration and ethnic violence, does not find a safe response from society, and is afraid. New age religions provide you with contact with the spiritual world and security in certain values. The same argument serves to explain the rise of Islamic and evangelical fundamentalism.
–Is war innate in humans?
-No, because if it were innate we would be hitting each other constantly and there would be no periods of peace. If it were an irresistible instinct, we would all be fighting, every day. It is not like sex, which is an irresistible instinct. You can live and grow in peace for a long time, but not without sex.
–Is there a human society that does not know war?
-There were various groups in the north and south of America, such as the mission Indians, who did not practice war. But, in general, war is common, although I can confirm that it is not based on instincts, but on material conditions, which also occur throughout the world, such as the shortage of food, territory, animals to hunt, of oil. They are needs that give rise to the armed conflict. We have to get rid of the idea that we are a naturally aggressive species that cannot avoid war. The idea that there are superior and inferior races and that hierarchical divisions are the consequence of natural selection and not of a long process of cultural evolution also lacks scientific basis.
Salvador Hernáez
This interview was published in March 1996, in number 178 of VERY Interesting
