He continues to be one of the most influential zoologists and ethologists on the international scene. He owes the slogan “equal, but different” with which the two aspects of human sexuality are defined. Now in your bookMale and female, recently published in Spain, continues his research on the nature of both sexes, something that began in 1967 with his workThe naked monkey.
–What is the human being?
-A primate, an animal that one day stood up and began to walk on two legs and develop its brain, becoming the most extraordinary being on this planet. It is an animal that, almost always, prefers to consider itself a fallen angel and not an upright primate.
–But which came first, walking upright or language?
-Our ancestors descended first from the trees. Then, with group hunting, brain and language were developed.
–After reading Male and female and The naked monkey , one has the feeling that they have been written from an excessively masculine point of view …
-I disagree. I am not macho. I am an observer of the human being in his daily reality. On the other hand, I am a zoologist and, in both works, I try to strip the human being of his arrogance so that he is aware of his origin. It is the only way to contribute some knowledge about the species.
–However, at the end of Male and Female he states that the woman will take care of the children and work, a role that the man cannot do.
-Man can also perform this double role, as he already did in ancient times. Observe the pygmies and you will see that the men play with their children when they return from the hunt. I have written that, because the current megalopolises do not allow the normal development of men. They work in offices to carry thebaconto home. But it is almost the only thing they achieve. It is a harmful habit that is difficult to change.
–In his works he explains that the sexual behavior of human beings developed when we descended from the trees.
-In fact, it was then that the males began to hunt in groups and the females began, also in groups, to build houses, collect fruits and take care of the young. They directed the social life and they provided the food. This division of labor led, after millions of years, to our ancestors beginning to have a different sexual behavior from the rest of the primates. Orgasm is the fruit of these changes, also the need to “make love” and not to copulate as a mechanical act.
–How are you so sure that the females did not go hunting. Today, for example, we know that the lion does not hunt, the lionesses do.
-Lionesses are in charge of hunting, because, unlike humans, their young grow quickly. Human females needed the food that males brought. So, the death of the male was not as disastrous as that of the female, whose presence was necessary for the young. That is why she was worshiped and deified. That image of primitive man dragging her by her hair doesn’t make sense.
–Will our sexual behavior be replaced by solo sex, on the rise since the emergence of new technologies?
-Life in big cities is changing our way of relating sexually. Today it is not so easy to find a stable partner and start a family. Office work and social organization, mostly in male hands, remove man from his natural environment and make him irascible.
–It is a bleak reality …
-One can practice onanism or solo sex, for example through the Internet. Seem right. At least the shy ones will be able to smile and enjoy sex. But it is a second solution. The first is always direct contact.
–In addition to being a scientist and a writer, you are a painter and a sculptor. His style has been described as surreal. How do you prefer to dream?
-Asleep and also awake, but without drugs. My painting is surreal and playful. Miró was a great friend. We did exhibitions together and he came to my house several times. We were talking about dreams and gambling. We had interesting talks. When I dream, I do it through imagination. So when I dream, I believe.
–Over the years, our society has understood the importance of Freud’s contributions. What do you think we need now, with the new century?
-We require a careful look at the normal man. We have studied the anomalies a lot and the time has come to look at ourselves very carefully and from a global perspective.
–How can we do it?
-In this case, television, the Internet and new technologies can be useful, because through them we can learn about other ways of understanding reality and relating to it.
–María Zambrano, a Spanish philosopher, wrote that “a society depends on the quality of its gods.” What do you think of the quality of our gods?
-It’s very good. What Jesus Christ, Buddha or Muhammad preached was wonderful. But his lessons have been instrumentalized in order to confuse and manipulate the goodness of the human being.
–Do you think that if there were more priestesses it would improve the situation?
-Of course. It is already happening. As I have said before, the woman one day occupied the center of social activity. A role cruelly seized by man. In ancient times, women, the Earth, fertility were worshiped. There was a time when the great God was Goddess, but was replaced by God the Father. On the island of Malta I saw how very macho men worshiped the Virgin Mary, the Great Mother, more than God the Father. I told them, but they didn’t recognize it.
–You design protective charms. It seems contradictory for a scientist to make this type of jewelry. Do you really believe in its power?
-Of course not. But I believe in the power of the one who carries them. It is proven that if you think that an object is going to protect and help you, your defenses grow and your energy flows more harmoniously when you carry it. Everything is within us.
–As he has pointed out, the increase in the birth rate is a serious problem that can destroy the rest of the species and turn the planet into a huge city. What solutions does it contemplate?
-The epidemics. In cities it is easier to catch it. Diseases can somewhat correct the constant growth of the birth rate. It is terrible what I say, but it is true. AIDS is an example of this.
–Is abortion another solution?
-It doesn’t seem like the best option. We have contraceptives and birth policies can be developed, as in China. Ideally, however, each couple should have no more than two children. In this way, father and mother are replaced by two other beings and the level of growth remains stable. But this, which seems simple, is almost impossible to happen in countries dominated by fundamentalist religions, which large families applaud even if they live in poverty. The Vatican does not take action on the matter either. This is tremendous because it does not consider the great damage that it causes to the survival of the human species.
–As exits to a catastrophic war you contemplate the conquest of other planets, genetic mutations in the human being that make it more reasonable or the advent of a new plane of existence. Are you seriously thinking about these possibilities?
-Yes, but I don’t know if we will have time. A new plane of existence can be generated from the influence of progress, which is capable of changing our lives. If our great-great-grandparents, who traveled on horseback, raised their heads and saw modern airplanes, they would seem like magic. Probably, if we could see the progress of the year 2500, we would feel the same amazement. The human being, thanks to his curiosity and exploration capacity, can look for solutions.
–But will we get there in time?
-I do not know. The only thing I know for sure is that now we can rebuild cities and make them more humane. We can also rebuild our habits. It is precisely the changes in behavior that are the great challenges that I hope we can achieve.
Juana Vera
This interview was published in March 2001, in number 238 of VERY Interesting.
