Markus Lanz (ZDF) is debating the scandals in the Catholic Church. In focus: the abuse of power.
Hamburg – Two “perverted systems”: Markus Lanz (ZDF) discusses Dr. Christiane Florin (editor for religion and society on Deutschlandfunk) with Manfred Lütz (psychiatrist and theologian) on cases of abuse within the Catholic Church and Anne Kunze (journalist of “Zeit”) with Cem Özdemir (Bündnis 90/Die Grünen Federal Minister for Food and Agriculture) about the bio-abuse of organic farming.
CemÖzdemir first apologizes to MarkusLanz (ZDF): He feels sorry for the people who are active in the church. He himself comes from a Muslim family, even in Islam there is enough to deal with when it comes to abuse of power. “What you did for one of my least brothers, you did for me,” he quotes from the Gospel according to Matthew. In his opinion, this should apply to every religion. When he sees how many ignore those who are weaker, he wishes that the facts would be dealt with honestly and with consequences.
Did the Church intentionally look the other way? Guests discuss abuse cases with Markus Lanz (ZDF)
“Having overlooked those affected,” Cardinal Reinhard Marx, Archbishop of Munich and Freising, recorded in his speech, “that is unforgivable.” The example of Peter H., a priest who was transferred to begin therapy for his pedophilia , MarkusLanz (ZDF) examines the facts in more detail. Although the therapist warned the church that this man should never work with children again, they reinstated him. In 1986 he was convicted of twelve cases of abuse. With the result that he was transferred again – and allowed to continue.
Josef Ratzinger, who at this time was first archbishop and then pope, is particularly in focus here. In the further course of the dispute with Markus Lanz (ZDF), Manfred Lütz often becomes an involuntary defense attorney against Dr. Christiane Florin, who has an unshakable point of view: Everyone could clearly see “how Josef Ratzinger reacted when he was exposed to criticism: it wasn’t him, he wasn’t responsible, he was badly advised, he was badly informed.” archbishop at that time was responsible in any case.
Markus Lanz (ZDF): Broadcast from February 03, 2022 – the guests
| TV talk with Markus Lanz on February 2nd, 2022 on ZDF | The guests |
|---|---|
| Cem Ozdemir | Agriculture Minister (Greens) |
| Anne Kunze | journalist (Die Zeit) |
| Christiane Florin | journalist (DLF) |
| Manfred Luetz | theologian and psychiatrist |
“No solid evidence” – theologian defends the Catholic Church with Markus Lanz (ZDF)
The Catholic Church is and was a hierarchical order: everything was under his responsibility, no matter what decisions were made. The incriminating document states very clearly that the priest must not be used with children! Why has no one cared about the danger the children are being put in? Especially within a moral authority, which the church wants to be.
Manfred Lützbei Markus Lanz (ZDF) now stretches his moral index finger in the direction of Dr. Christiane Florin, who rolls her eyes a bit annoyed. “There is no solid evidence” that Josef Ratzinger really knew about the abuse. Unfortunately, he behaves “media clumsily.” One day after the official press conference, one would have wished for a statement from him. But he’s just a professor, Manfred Lütz defends him: First he reads the entire report and then he will react in a few days. And maybe these days will turn into years in which nothing happens.
Markus Lanz (ZDF): Where is the responsibility? Journalist attacks Catholic Church
Dr. almost bursts Christiane Florinbei Markus Lanz (ZDF) because the imaginary hat cord: Because it can’t be an excuse that Josef Ratzinger is a professor and therefore unworldly. When people say again that he didn’t know, he wasn’t responsible for it, she asks herself the other way around: what was the archbishop responsible for? “One person shifts the responsibility onto the other, so that in the end no one has to take responsibility anymore.” And that, although in the hierarchy of the church it should actually be clear who bears the responsibility.
dr Christiane Florin comes back to the quote from Cem Özdemir: The archbishop would have been obliged to protect the least and not the clergy. “That doesn’t seem to have worked out back then – to put it mildly.” And now there are only a few or succinct words of apology?
Organic abuse in agriculture: Özdemir refers to “system, with a lot of money”
A dignified appearance is what the church has been missing for a long time. Still more abysses are given about the Legionaries of Christ. The founder, a “really perverted criminal”, scolds Manfred LützbeiMarkus Lanz (ZDF). People run away from Christianity because stories like this make them lose faith. He quotes Gregor Gysi, who said that “he is an atheist but is afraid of a godless society because it could lose solidarity”. Christianity is the basis for sometimes acting unselfishly. It is society’s foundation of values that is undermined with such incidents. dr Christiane Florin puts it in a nutshell: the credulity of the little people who are involved in and for the church is cynically exploited.
After the sins of the church, Markus Lanz tries somewhat desperately to lead the way to his other two interlocutors, who have almost been forgotten. And the question arises as to why the show didn’t just leave it at one topic, and yet the comparisons to be made are obvious: even with animals, humans per se often abuse power. It is not for nothing that Cem Özdemir knits his eyebrows critically. Here, too, there is a “system that is running with a lot of money” behind everything, he explains. It says it all when the largest organic retailer is ALDI and the largest organic butcher is Tönnies.
Özdemir calls on Markus Lanz (ZDF) to further develop the mast system
The motto: higher, faster, further, “grow or give way.” In recent years, “the stalls were no longer adapted to the animals, but the animals to the stalls” and there were only half the pig farmers, but the quantity of pigs has remained the same, says Cem Özdemirbei Markus Lanz (ZDF). Here, too, the system absolutely has to get back on its feet and develop further from the system we have inherited, which is inhuman and contemptuous of the environment.
ZDF Talk Markus Lanz
The program from February 2, 2022 can be accessed online in the ZDF media library.
But with a realistic view: Anne Kunze proves expertly with Markus Lanz (ZDF) that we tend to charge some terminology as well as the word “organic”: here with ideas of supposedly moral people, of happy animals and healthy nutrition. Things are projected into it that we would like to believe in. But perhaps we should see all things “entirely devoid of moral superiority” for once, because what we choose to believe in and actual reality are often two different worlds. Such delusional ideas can only be ended when the pressure for change within the population increases. Because this whole social order is, according to (not only) Cem Özdemir, actually “a grenade mess.” (Tina Waldeck)
