Markus Lanz on ZDF on Tuesday is all about the election results in Italy. How dangerous is the shift to the right for Europe?
Hamburg – Markus Lanz takes a casual look at the interlude in Italy (his country of birth) on ZDF in order to talk to his guests about identity and fascism, because: Italy “has not been alone in Europe with this tone for a long time.” How dangerous is the right turn?
Reinhold Messner (Italian extreme mountaineer and former member of the European Parliament), Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann (Chairwoman of the Defense Committee in the German Bundestag, FDP), Natalie Amiri (Iranian-German journalist) and Andreas Postel (Head of the ZDF foreign studio) will be there in Rome).
Talk with Markus Lanz (ZDF): A fragmentation of Europe suits Putin
Is it possible that “after the elections in Italy, the champagne corks popped in the Kremlin?” Markus Lanz asks Reinhold Messner right at the beginning. He knows Silvio Berlusconi and Matteo Salvini through the European Parliament – as well as Giulio Tremonti, who is now to become Finance Minister in Italy again.
There hasn’t been a bang yet, but Reinhold Messner sees Matteo Salvini as the worst populist in this group. “Berlusconi is nothing against it”, but he is also “not a clean European.” And Giorgia Meloni also wants to “read Europe’s riot act.” if Italy stood “by the European Community”. A fragmentation and thus weakening of the EU naturally suits Vladimir Putin.
|The guests at Markus Lanz (ZDF)
|Extreme mountaineer, former MEP
|Marie Agnes Strack Zimmermann
|Head of the ZDF foreign studio in Rome
Talk with Markus Lanz (ZDF): Giorgia Meloni has “the pants on” in the right camp
Silvio Berlusconi, Matteo Salvini and Giorgia Meloni “all have very different perspectives on the Kremlin” and Giorgia Meloni, in contrast to the men, was definitely in favor of the sanctions against Russia, says Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann in a more differentiated way. This is also “for consistent intervention, while the two men are close to Russia.” These are “very specific types of men,” explains the FDP politician dryly. “They appreciate each other.”
But in her estimation, Giorgia Meloni has “the pants on” in this constellation.” In 2019, the politician was first noticed when she defined herself with: “I’m Georgia, I’m a mother, I’m a Christian, I’m Italian and Nobody will take that away from me,” Natalie Amiri repeats her words. “Something hit them with the Italians” that “Italy is coming back to its old size” and can rediscover its own “national pride”.
Markus Lanz (ZDF): The Italian election campaign hardly left any time to form an opinion
Markus Lanz asks Andreas Postel why people choose “these characters” full of empty phrases. He sees the problem in the fact that the people in Italy did not know “who to vote for.” Giorgia Meloni “was a new figure” in the political game after Mario Draghi “willfully overthrew the party” in the summer had been brought about. And with such a short election campaign – “we’ve never experienced anything like it here” – there was “hardly any time to form an opinion.”
Natalie Amiri was in Italy all August speaking to over “100 taxi drivers” who all said: “Either vote nothing or vote right.” And that is “well the result is exactly what we have now.” Talks with the working class are “often very revealing” because these people “pull the carts in a country like this” describes Markus Lanz, who himself comes from this milieu.
In this situation, “Meloni was able to show off her charm”, as Reinhold Messner puts it, and offers a good platform for Markus Lanz to record Giorgia Meloni’s election campaign video, in which she rails against the LGBT community and “gender ideology” – with a kind that was derided in Italy as a “fish seller”. “Very charming,” comments Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann ironically.
Markus Lanz (ZDF): Italian governments have a short sell-by date
But in the final weeks of the election campaign, she had “chalked up,” explains Andreas Postel. She was gentle and tried to connect in all directions. “She avoided these harsh tones as far as possible.” “Good populists know exactly what they say where” and “how they say what where,” explains Reinhold Messner. “It promises everything and nothing” and “what it promises is a feeling”: as an attempt to reconstruct security and stability on the basis of national structures. “We will experience this policy in the EU” that people increasingly represent the interests of their countries and do not think in the common good of the EU.
But there is hope, explains Markus Lanz with a grin, because the “average best-before date of Italian governments” is usually only 14 months and “that’s a consolation!” Reinhold Messner jokes with him: “It won’t last too long.” There is also hope , because it will not be immediately apparent “what was actually chosen”, but the consequences will become apparent “much later!” (Tina Waldeck)