“The taxi drivers in Madrid are especially dishonest,” complains Martinus Veltman as he takes a seat, after having been tried to cheat in an urban fabric that he knows well. Not in vain was he a professor at the Autonomous University of Madrid for eight years. At almost 70 years old, Veltman sports a full beard that refuses to turn gray and gives him the appearance of an old sea dog, until we look at his awake and direct gaze, which has scrutinized the inner mysteries of the world with the insight of genius.
In 1999 he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics, together with his student Gerardus? T Hooft, for discovering the mathematical bases of the branch of science that studies the smallest components of the universe: particle physics. He currently resides in his hometown, in Bilthoven (Holland), with his wife, dedicated to writing a book in which he explains his findings in an informative way. “It is not good that you discover something and nobody understands it,” he ironizes.
–Did you like the ceremony at the Swedish Academy?
-It was fantastic, especially when you stand up and the King of Sweden gives you the Prize. But what I enjoyed the most were the little details. For example, I had caught a good flu, and during the banquet the queen, next to whom I was sitting, handed me a gold spoon with peppermint. It looked like it was in a fairy tale.
–The Swedish Academy awarded him the award, along with his colleague Gerardus? T Hooft, literally for “clarifying the quantum structure of weak interactions in physics.” It sounds a bit unintelligible to the uninitiated. Could you explain what particle physics is?
-Today, we believe that everything in the universe is made up of elementary particles. Particle physics studies the properties of these particles. Thus, knowing everything about them would mean knowing everything about everything.
–Since when is research in this field?
-It started in the middle of the 20th century. To give you an idea of its importance, since 1948 25 Nobel Prizes have been awarded to 42 physicists specializing in this field. Of course, particles were already known before. Einstein, for example, won the Nobel Prize for discovering that light is made up of photons and not for his theory of relativity. Many think that this is his most revolutionary discovery. Paradoxically, the public knows very little about it.
–How would you introduce the general public to the theory that led to the Nobel, the so-called Standard Model?
-What we did was establish the precise mathematics that describes how all these particles interact.
–Is the whole universe already explained then?
-Thinking that would be too optimistic. There are many things that we do not know yet. The difference is that before we observed more processes than we could calculate and now we can calculate things that we cannot see yet.
–Like the famous Higgs particle, one of the particles that make up life?
-Exactly. We know it must exist, but we won’t be able to observe it until 2008, when the LHC, CERN’s new particle accelerator, the European Laboratory for Particle Physics, is built near Geneva.
–Since 1968, when they began to investigate the Standard Model that they would complete in 1971, many scientists were looking for the same thing as you. Why did they succeed where others had failed?
-As is often the case, in the first place, because it was difficult to find such mathematics. New ideas were needed. No one could be sure which direction to take. And there were many possibilities. I thought a lot about it and at a certain point I decided that the best direction was to investigate gauge theory, a mathematical theory used to describe subatomic particles that combines quantum mechanics and Einstein’s theory of relativity.
–What led you to make that decision?
-My previous experiments. All together they showed me the best way. A computer program, Schoonship, also helped me a lot, an expression that could be translated as “Get the boat in order!” Which nobody had, because I had invented it.
–Did you make it up expressly for it?
-It was something earlier. I started to develop it with the experiments on other particles called neutrinos, at CERN. Neutrinos did things that we didn’t understand very well, so I developed the Schoonship to find out how they interacted. Later, the problem would be the same. We didn’t know how the particles interacted. With the help of this program I started to calculate it. It was very complicated. Other scientists had tried, but lacked this tool.
–Then has it been useful?
-Yes, for many people and in many problems of astrophysics, chemistry … It has also served as the basis for more advanced computer programs, such as Mathematica, the most widespread in this field.
–Going back to the Standard Model, does it have any application in everyday life?
-I do not know. We do not work to make a better television monitor, or to make people’s lives more comfortable, but to better understand nature. Nothing more. But I think that people’s lives improve when it comes down to things like this.
–Some of his colleagues indicate that the way in which they completed the Standard Model is very beautiful. What is the relationship between beauty and physics?
-Beauty is subjective. I remember Feynman’s first reaction – also a Nobel Prize winner in Physics, in 1965, and on whose diagrams our model is based – when he heard about the Standard Model, he found it ugly because it was too complicated. I didn’t really like him very much either. However, the beauty is appreciated when you look at the theory and see how everything works so well. In mathematics we do not speak of the same kind of beauty as if we look at a painting. I have never been able to answer questions like this.
–Do you foresee that your theory can be corrected in a few years?
-How could I know? Newton’s theory of gravitation was corrected by Einstein’s. It introduced very small changes but they made it a different theory. The theory we have arrived at is not the end. It will be the approach to another.
–How did you get interested in physics?
-When I was 16 years old, my high school teacher advised my parents to study physics. It was good advice.
–It is surprising to see on his resume that he finished his degree very late, almost at the age of 30. What was it due to?
-First, physics was not taught in an attractive way then because after the war the situation at the university was not good. Second, I had to do military service, and third, I had no money. He had to work to live. These were not good times for physics.
–The beginning of his research work is linked to the neutrino experiment at CERN. He has related in a conference that he was so excited that he could not sleep waiting for the results. How do you remember that period?
-It was fascinating. For the first time I had contact with experiments in a field in which we did not know anything. Until that time, there had been some evidence in America from which it could be deduced that neutrinos existed. I loved it when we first saw them and saw how they worked. Then I began to understand what the theory meant.
–What relationship do you have with your Nobel colleague, Gerardus? T Hooft?
-The same that I keep with all my other students. Sometimes we see each other and talk, but I have about fifteen students like him and many are also professors.
–As an emeritus professor at the University of Michigan, in the United States, do you think that there is much difference between European science and that which is done there?
– We do the same science, but, for many reasons, in the United States they do it better. For example, the organization is more extensive. In Spain, physics is being investigated in Barcelona, Valencia and Madrid. There is hardly any competition between the centers and if they ask for money it would be difficult to see which one you should go to. In the United States, you can ask someone from California to evaluate the work of people from New York. In general, Europe is divided into watertight compartments: Spain, France, England … Cooperation between them is difficult and, most importantly, their systems are different. Scientists need to compete, and the best should get the most help.
–Does Europe excel at something?
-In the way to interest their students in science. In America, valuable people are making money and not science, so the United States often imports scientists from Europe.
–When you see what a footballer charges for example, do you have the feeling that scientists are socially undervalued?
-It doesn’t bother me that society is moving in that direction as long as it allows us to do science. Someone may think that footballers are terrible, but the world of finance is worse. I know this from my daughter, who works in the financial sector. In one afternoon, billions of dollars go to just one person. It may not be fair, but this is how our society works and it seems that, for the moment, it is the best way. I dont complain. I can do my job. In other times it would have been impossible, as it is today in the Third World.
–In addition to your passion for physics, you are a regular reader of science fiction. Does your reading stimulate your imagination to investigate?
-Not. I like science fiction because when you are busy researching and working all day, your brain better keep working. You need something else, but something not too heavy, something that you can easily read. I prefer not to read heavy literature because if you do, you start to think about different topics.
–What is your relationship with Spain?
-Between 1988 and 1995 I was a professor at the Autonomous University of Madrid. I am a good friend of Professor Francisco Yndurain. We have worked together on many things. I really like the climate and my wife and I came to think of living here when I retired.
–Already retired, what is one of your days like?
-I live in Holland, with my wife. My children live in Los Angeles and London. When I feel like it, I work on the book I’m writing to explain these things, because I think they need to be accessible to ordinary people. I also play bridge, walk, …
–(His wife enters the room to request his time and raises one last question) How has being married influenced your professional life?
-It is important to live in a calm atmosphere, especially when you get home from work. There have been periods in my life when I have worked 16 hours a day every day. Under those conditions, it is very difficult for a wife to be understanding. My wife was. Many of my colleagues have always gone on vacation, and we did not. She, however, knows nothing of what I do. Except for my daughter, who studied the same as me, no one in my family understands physics.
Jaime Lopez
This interview was published in July 2000, in the number 230 of VERY Interesting.
