The field of this explorer without a helmet or a shotgun is the frontiers of medical science. Not long ago he was commenting on his project of incursion into the quicksand of neurobiotechnology, a novel branch of science that consists of something like playing with neuron transplants.
This is Irving Weissman, a researcher of Jewish origin, founder of companies that commercialize stem cells and trout fisherman in his spare time. His is a mind on the boil that began to be interested in bone marrow transplants, successfully crossed the stormy waters of stem cells, which improve the expectations of cure from cancer, and now he is going all over the place with the great enigma of medicine, that amazing monster that is the brain.
–Is the scientist born or made?
-A bit of both. I knew I was going to be a scientist when I was ten, after reading a book on microbiology. He was always looking for situations to practice science. When I was 15 years old, I was lucky to find a laboratory in the small town in the state of Montana where I lived, which has no more than 20,000 inhabitants. Coincidentally, the hospital pathologist was the director of the only magazine on transplants that was published at that time in the world. He had moved to Montana because he was fed up with the academic politicking.
–What was it called?
-Ernst Eichfall. He had fled Germany in 1939 because he was Jewish. He came to the United States and studied at Harvard and Utah. So, at 17 years old, I already had three articles published on transplants. In one, I even got started on an issue that I still work on: bone marrow transplantation.
–You were one of the first scientists to do research on tissue transplants.
-No, I was the first to isolate stem cells, but many people had done bone transplants before me. The one who got the Nobel for it was Donald Thomas, in the 90’s. I was more interested in immunology and immune intolerance. I began by studying how the bone marrow develops lymphocytes and soon discovered that the cell that made them was ultimately the stem cell.
–What is a stem cell?
-It is a cell that when it divides gives rise to more stem cells like it and stem cells from other types of tissues. Thus, there are pluripotent stem cells, which can give rise to stem cells from various tissues, and stem cells from specific tissues: blood, liver, brain, etc.
–Are they the same throughout life?
-They change, but not much. Fetal stem cells can do a little more than adult stem cells. It is because, when you are a fetus, oxygen comes to you from your mother, so fetal hemoglobin is a little different from that of the adult. The advantage of fetal cells is that a fetal stem cell can give rise to stem cells with adult hemoglobin. But an adult stem cell put into a fetus will never make fetal hemoglobin.
–Stem cells are in vogue in the fight against cancer and are expected to play a leading role in other diseases. Which ones will be treated with stem cells and when?
-Stem cells are already being used in the fight against breast cancer, leukemia, lymphoma and multiple myeloma.
–Do stem cells cure these diseases?
-No, what cures is chemotherapy and radiotherapy and the more that is given, the greater the probability of ending the cancer. And you can give more if you transplant stem cells to the patient. Other cases in which they are useful is when someone is born with a genetic defect, since their defective stem cells can be replaced by those of a person who does not have that problem.
–For example, in hemophilia?
– Hemophilia is a little different. A liver stem cell transplant is required. So far, it has only been done in mice. It can be useful in cases of cirrhosis or liver cancer: you isolate liver stem cells, irradiate it, and then put the stem cells in to recreate it. In humans it will be done in four or five years.
–When can stem cells be transplanted in the treatment of diabetes or Alzheimer’s disease?
-In three or five years there will be a whole revolution in this sense. We are studying how to isolate brain cells, which will work for Parkinson’s, for example.
–Will talking about Frankenstein stop being a fantasy?
-You can transplant the heart, the kidney, some bones …, but not the brain. The essence of the Frankenstein story is that a new being has the mind of someone who existed before. Now we can’t.
–And in twenty years?
-In twenty years or before we will be able to modify parts of the brain through transplants and replace damaged areas with implants. The problem is that we have no idea how you and I can carry on this conversation, what happens in our brain so that we can think, have memory, be aware or synthesize all the information in our life and talk about her. It’s amazing. No animal does.
–In what state is the investigation?
-In these moments we know the stem cells of the brain that generate the cells that carry out these functions. Why, then, do we not understand how the mind works? Freud faced the problem, but what he did was, rather, what a novelist would do: a very interesting story with the idea that the early phases of our life determine the rest of it, and that may not be so. In fact, the problem is that the most brilliant minds that have investigated the brain have not studied its biology, but psychiatry.
–His studies bring us closer to one of the most relevant problems in philosophy: whether consciousness can exist without matter, that is, whether consciousness can survive us.
-I think that consciousness is a property of brain function, and it only exists in a latent or activated state as long as the brain encodes and induces it. But it is impossible to know right now, because we do not know the functions of the mind. So transferring the content of the mind to a machine or to another type of material may and may not be possible. We owe part of our knowledge to neurosurgery. During brain operations, certain areas of the brain can be stimulated. One of the most famous experiences was that of a neurosurgeon who stimulated a region of the brain and the patient said that he listened to Beethoven’s music. Another very important study was conducted eight years ago in London with a schizophrenia patient who heard voices. Although the doctors knew that he did not hear anything, because with a positron scan they did not pick up signals from the ear area, they asked him to press a button when he heard the voices; He did and there were signals in various parts of the brain. That means that by stimulating specific areas of the brain you can hear ordered thoughts that are impossible to control.
–In addition to being a researcher, you are an entrepreneur.
-I have founded several companies. I was a director of Systemics, which is now owned by Novartis. They will never make a lot of money, because it costs a lot to extract stem cells. I am now at Stem Cell Inc., which is dedicated to stem cells from the brain, liver and, in the future, pancreas.
–Will Stem Cell be more profitable?
-I have always thought that you have to look for companies to get science to patients. It cannot be done from the university, because there is neither money, nor space. My main goal is to bring transplants to patients.
–He also owns a ranch.
-Yes, in Montana. I grew up there. It is owned by three families and we fish for trout. Before we also had horses and cattle.
–Are you a practicing Jew?
-In Montana there are very few Jews, not even enough to have a synagogue. Religion is not important in my life, because it has been mixed with politics throughout the entire history of the United States.
–How does religion affect transplants?
-It is very important to be able to transplant stem cells to people who have diseases, to people with hopes and dreams. If a person, for political or religious reasons, prevents us from transplanting those cells because they come from a dead fetus, I think they are wrong.
–Are stem cells ever taken from living things?
-Never. It is always after a therapeutic abortion; Every woman who has an abortion signs a document stating that she does it voluntarily. This is the law. It is also not allowed for a woman to want to get pregnant to have an abortion, so that the stem cells of the fetus are used in a transplant for someone in her family.
–Do you think that in a few centuries man will be immortal?
-Not. If we talk about 10,000 years from now, it may be, but right now everything is much more complex than we think.
Jaime Lopez
This interview was published in June 2001, in number 242 of VERY Interesting.
